This episode features an interview with Dr. Siva priya Santhanam, Assistant Professor in the Department of Speech, Language, Hearing Sciences at Metropolitan State University of Denver. Dr. Santhanam explains how embracing practices to meet the needs of students with disabilities also helps us make the classroom (online or in person) a better place for all students to learn. Hear how Dr. Santhanam's research supports this theory and several best practices that can be easily incorporated into your teaching. Dr. Santhanam also shares some insights for faculty and parents who are trying to navigate higher education for students with disabilities.
the warrant need about it. And the more I hear why, fancy members say, and more from students. One team that comes out at me is that, Hey, look at these strategies. If I used these strategies in my flash room, not just a student with offices would benefit, but every single person that classroom would benefit. Welcome to elevate ed thistles a space for conversations around, elevating teaching practices and applied learning for nontraditional students from the mile high city of Denver, Colorado. This podcast is brought to you by the University of Denver's College for Professional and Continuing Education University College, where adult learners have been pursuing career focused credentials. Since 1938 I have here in the studio with me today, Doctor sent that she is an assistant professor in the Department of speech language hearing sciences at Metropolitan State University of Denver. She is currently developing the integrated supports for students with autism spectrum disorders in college, otherwise known by the acronym I S S. A C. Her research interests include developing innovative methods of intervention to support communication and young Children and adults with autism spectrum disorders, supporting parent child interactions and families of Children with developmental disabilities and multicultural service delivery in speech language pathology. I am so excited to have you here with me today. Thank you so much. So this is an extremely important topic for really anybody in higher Ed, because the numbers of students with disabilities has really been increasing, right? Yeah. So talk a little bit about your thoughts on why that increase this happening And then, you know, maybe some theories in some data points. And then then from there, we'll start with laying of the foundation on the ground work for why this conversation we're having today is so important and and how it affects really anybody in higher ed. And then we'll start to dig
into top it a little bit work. Sure. So just d'oh give you some background about why we're having more and more people with disabilities entering the higher education system. So this is some information on history not obviously required to remember
the years. I s o
you know, in the early 70 60 before 1975 there was seclusion off people that had visited any form of especially developmental disabilities. So what happened is when people had any challenges. They were always placed in what's called a special or secluded system within coats. So, you know, like a special school and that kind of thing. So they were not integrated along with the difficulty. Could not be Children. So in 1975 there was an act or a lot of public law that was passed, and that was called, I think, Education for All Act. And what happened after that is that the priority became that all Children, whether they have a disability or not, should have access to a free and appropriate public education. It's called the F A a p e the tip on in the least restricted environment. So that means that you have to put tries with a disability or without disability, everybody in the same classroom and they go through the same kind of education, the same kind of learning that every other cut house. Okay, but this was really good, you know? Sure, Yeah, it was really, you know, advocated. For my parent groups, like quality makers, there were glitches through in the system, but you know, by the time
the i d. E. A. The
Individuals With Disabilities Education Act came out in 2000 for what had happened is there were about 2 to 3 decades of Children that had bean through this inclusive education system, which was all fantastic so that can culminated in the I d wish then started. You know, making or mandating i e. T service is, which is the individualized educational program for Children that have documented disabilities. So if Triumph is in a school system for a public school system on the child has any challenges and learning or communication, reading and writing, and that shines has to be placed in the individualized education program. The P where, then what happens is that try this eligible for getting all kinds of service is that includes your occupation therapy, speech language, their baby girl therapy, a special education classroom, all kinds of additional supports. So these are all really helpful for that child to not just be around other Children off their same age and gender. That but also, you know, socialize and learn in that environment. So this act, you know, watch the system has done watch. The garment policies have done has really pushed for a lot of Children with disabilities to graduate from high school, which was not something that
supports have been there for them, toe Actually progress through the system. Exactly. Be successful.
Exactly. Yeah, so And, you know, like I said, they're being parents and policymakers behind this. We had all this. So in addition to all of that, the early intervention system, which is something that every state provides in the United States for every child at the moment, you take no notice that the trial is having some kind of delayed milestones. You take the child's pediatrician, that person refers you to the state system on. Then, from there you get free access to any intervention for the 1st 3 years or the 1st 5 years of life. Which means you're getting all the kinds of rich divorce that you need as here the Yankee toe. So these two have really propelled, you know, education, noxious academic, but also social engagement and learning and communication for all these Children. So if you look at some of these statistics, and that's a long history for wider here, but few lips look at some of the statistics from I was looking at some numbers, and from 1994 to 2006 there has been a dramatic rice in the number of Children that had with disabilities that are graduating from high school. So before 1994 there were about 20,000 students with autism specifically on. Then, between 1994 to 2006 there were about 200,000 students with autism, so see from 20,000 to 200,000. So then we know from recent data that by the year 2020 which is just on the corner, we're gonna have about 500,000 students, especially on the autism spectrum that are entering the higher education system. So this is what has driven the sudden rice. It's not like, you know, people with autism that our people with disabilities I've never gone to college is they all have that should always have. But this sudden rice, this because of the supports that have been there, which is all good, you know. So now we're in this point where we've done really good before 18 or
12 has been I would imagine evolving, you know, as the student body has been evolving and the supports have been put into place. So for the last you know, 40 years K through 12 has probably been shifting and morphing and adjusting to these changes, where it seems more dramatic for higher ed and the system's haunted place right for hire and be able to support in higher ed. We expect that when students enter our classroom, particularly at the graduate level, I think even more so that when his student Hitcher classroom there at a certain level of developmentally and their ability to be able to communicate or just to change and you know they're executive skills, so to speak. Baby. Very true. Education has shifted more thio being more of a collaborative approach, understanding who's in the room and how and how to meet those needs. So this is just another another layer?
Absolutely. On that, another point I wanted to add. There is these students with disabilities don't always have obvious obvious forms of disabilities. Yeah, sure. So not everybody has, like a physical impairment or not. Everybody is with disabilities. On a wheelchair, for example, several of these disabilities are invisible, which means it's in your head.
Nobody can actually see it, right? Well, it is probably right. Sometimes I feel like whether or not it is, I don't I know you feel like it is not necessarily appropriate to articulate, even to a colleague, let alone to the student that something feels off. Something feels different. And how do I figure out whether or not I should support the student, how I support that students? So let's talk about that. All the sharks you know a lot about, I think that'd be really helpful. It doesn't help an instructor to actually, no, I know that I've had students in my forces where I have received a letter combinations from Disability Service's prior to win the quarter starts. And, you know, sometimes that's helpful or not. But then I also have had a hunch of times that I have students in my course Is that maybe I should have been connected. Disability service is could have been helpful to them, but they didn't realize that this was an option into them. So doesn't help an instructor faculty professor to know. And if they don't know yeah, what might be some of the signs?
What you're asking is if the person I mean faculty or the instructor doesn't know if the student has a disability. How does he or she support right this ex address? Yes. Okay, so first of all, I wantto have backtrack a little bit about accommodations and how a student even tries to access these accommodate grazing. The university said it. Great. So, like I was telling you, based on the I d. Act and access to the I P system in the Candle 12 education system, the school district that Paris these are the people that are responsible for trying to get a try and access to support in service. But once this person graduates from high school in interest college, that at that point there's nobody with you, you're basically on your own, trying to figure out where do I need to go seek the support I need. Good point. So then you have to figure out where the office is, how to get to that office, how we talk to the person in that office when we need to take with me. When I go to that disability servicesoffice every university has an office visit. Service is that could be called by many names. So when you have a young adult with a disability the responsibility's on the young adults to take the proof off our documentation for their disability on go approach. That is a pretty servicesoffice Now. This is something that people with disabilities may want to dio, and there are people that might not want to do it. And they have the right. Just say no to the The access to those service is. So If somebody doesn't want to access service is through the disability servicesoffice, then they are free to choose that we cannot as Karen's or educators or any other friends or anybody else. We cannot ask them to go to the disability servicesoffice right? So because as adults, they have that wretch denied. Oh, service is so one of the match, I tell families. And, I tell young adults, is if they know that they've had challenges until high school the day they graduate out of high school. Those challenges ey're not going to just fly out of the window overnights, right? You are going to have some kind of challenge, minimal or not minimal. Sometimes you might need a lot of supports, so it's important that they go and tell the person in the disability service office. Hey, you. You know what? I have this disability. Here's my documentation. Please take a look at this documentation on. Then please provide me the accommodations that the disability service officer bites. Accommodations are any kinds off supports or deeds that disability service office is supposed to provide all students with disabilities on. This is done because we want to give equitable axes two students with disabilities. So that's the idea behind accommodations.
Just to clarify, they often take the form of wind needed this student can receive on additional for a day or two. You know, in addition to the added onto the normal deadline to submit assignments so hard, it's like that good things,
like extra time and exams, things like extra time in assignments they use off a recorder in class. The use of no taking systems burek last time even, you know, accessible technology like if you want a software to read your textbook as review, reading a text, all of these camps are those accommodations, and these are very helpful for a lot of students. Now, something to remember here is these might not always be helpful for all students, like some of them might really not even need these accommodations or suffer some students. These accommodations might not even be relevant. They might have set of challenges on the accommodations are telling you, Hey, you have a note taker or extra time? The student is like, I don't need that. I know how to do all that. So you have to start, you know, thinking about other ways. D'oh, we'll talk about that eventually. But going back to your question whether the professor should know, I think it's important for the professor to know. But it lies on the student, whether he or she wants to disclose his disability to the professor, not on its lies on the student, whether he or she wants to go access the accommodations from the disability servicesoffice. So if a professor does not know that the student has a disability, what do they do? So one answer that I have for that is treat everybody the same way you strategies in your classroom in a way that everybody gets the support. It's just not a student with a challenge, you know, lots of times, professors, wonderful, dispersions, quite quirky, or this person's just shy or this person's being not following rules. You know that kind of thing and they begin to wonder. Maybe the student has a disability, I don't know, but it's okay, you know, whether they have a disability or not. When we start providing the same kind of support for every individual in that classroom, the person who has a disability who may or may not have disclosed his disability also gets that support through your you know, education and your strategy said You use in the classroom right well, and
one of the things that I think it's so beautiful about having this conversation raising awareness around this is that, you know, I mean, a lot of these disorders are called spectrum disorders because there's a broad spectrum of how they affect people on where people fall. And I would think that there are some people that our love enough on the spectrum that maybe they've gone on undiagnosed. They've been able to navigate through life fairly well. But still everyone can benefit from strategies that make the teaching and learning more comfortable, more approachable, more inclusive.
I think you know universities more and more are going to have to figure out ways d'oh! Not just support these students, but even find ways. D'oh! Healthy students find jobs. Yes, that's going to become a priority for me. Yeah, exactly. So what do you You know, we the reason we propagate or promote higher education for students with disabilities is because we know that higher education helps find better jobs. Higher education helps with more independence, not just financial independence, but even independence. In your daily living, education also helps with you having a better quality of life, a better sense of self esteem. Like you feel good about yourself because you have a Diggory and you have a job. You know all those things. So I think they have the right to access all that. And one thing that I have. Yes, one thing that I've noticed is a lot of parents off young adults or Children with disabilities. Always keep thinking, Oh, you know, a job in a grocery store. Just sort items or sorting Scylla bear or washing dishes. You know, I have a student here who can read again, right? You can't even write a novel. You know, he has the ability to Matthew could do sites on. I'm not saying it's sorting silverware and sorting items in a grocery store are bad jobs. They're not bad drops tells you great, but you have all these abilities and skills. I will drive them half that job, be transferred into being a software programmer or recorder. Or, you know, maybe you become a lecturer in psychology or become a professor of history or whatever your passion. It's, you know, like Temple Grandin, for example, Jazz Awards, renowned professor. How she's doing fantastic, right and so many more details like her. They do so well because they had the support and they had the the ability to do it, and they have the willpower to do it. So, yeah, one message that I think that that's really important for parents to take away from our conversation. Today's, I think, planning very early on transitioning your time from the high school system to the college system flat ing around. You know, what do you want? Your tragedy? What are his interests? What are hash areas of passion, like what she want to be when she wants thio be your grown up for you so starting to channel eyes This shows interest in such a way that this size can then go to a college in me, you know, eventually find a job. So, like I said, you know, universities have a big role to play here. Yeah. Yeah, Like I said that the bridge between the classroom supports and then eventually life, like getting a job, being independent. And for all you know, 50 years from now, that student might think, Oh, do you are Monsieur Denver? Didn't for me. Yeah, that's why I'm having a job that I am todo
they all are. And that's that's the ultimate goal and the ultimate reward, right? Absolutely. What we haven't talked about other than in the introduction is your particular area of passion in your area of study, which I think is super interesting. And I love how what you're studying specifically can really more broadly, just so many different audience.
Let's talk. Sure. So I'll tell you a little bit about what I'm doing right now and then go on to talking about the population that working with Okay, so one thing that I'm doing right now is developing to match support Service is for these students, which means I'm directly working with the students as opposed. Thio, you're not addressing issues outside in their environment. Okay, so that direct support service is what you were talking about. Any introduction? The Isaac program? The ice is a secret room where we're doing individual on Groupe supports an intervention. The individualized intervention focuses on some of the skills that's the students with autism wants to work on. We have a peer mentoring system here. So what happens is students in my speech language hearing scientist department work with me as peer mentors, and they model some of the skills that the students with autism can then observe and learn and practice. So whatever the students with autism large within these individual sessions, we then transfer to a group session which happens once a month now. But hopefully will do that more frequent E. At that point, we will have an opportunity for everybody to practice the skills that they looked. So one thing that we've noticed from your previous research literature and based on my experiences is that students with autism and anybody with developmental disability, for that matter need riel life practice in Aereo's for the skills that they learn, you know, you're sitting across the desk and you're teaching a bunch of strategies and you're saying, Hey, go outside and do these is not super helpful, you know, on this is something that I've heard from handles on the opposite spectrum. Tell me they always said, You know, it's nice. You know what? I'm learning all these turtles. Fantastic. You're giving me work sheets and stuff. But then when I actually practicing, it's in the realize if you're actually practising it. So we tried to simulate that kind off Rheal life experience. We cannot. I cannot go with this person to every classroom and every, you know, interaction. They have every day. But we try to simulate some of those experiences, and sometimes we go out with them and, you know, we have somewhere we call Sessions divorce. So we just do some of these individual sessions like that. So that's what we do in terms of direct support. Service is another area of support that I am working on right now is for the faculty members were doing what is called a fact deny any community on so there are a group of faculty that revive 15 to 20 people in that group on. What we do is we meet once a month on. We discuss some of the strategies that are helpful for us to have docked in our classrooms. How can we start using these strategies not just for those individuals attending the faculty in any community by for the larger university campus. So we're thinking of, you know, developing resources that can be like Web based resource is that we post on a base platform that is finally remember in the future as a student with officer in the classroom. Here is where you go to learn how to support this student at three. So we're working on those two aspects. I think one has direct support that is working with the student directly, and the other is in direct because I'm working with the environment, which is happening. The staff. So that's what where did loving right now. But talking about the population I'm working with going into specifics of what's friends and challenges they have now, autism is, you know, the definition says that it's a neuro developmental disorder on the city already goes anywhere from somebody who can be completely non verbal on have a ton of sensory challenges all the way to somebody who can be having advanced language abilities. You know, they could be hiding horrible. They can read that right? But they minds have challenges understanding. Say, for example, social fuse in a conversation. They might have challenges understanding some of the kind of metaphoric language, you know, the figure rated language we use. Sometimes they might have challenges in, kind of, you know, picking up a topic and then just going on and on about it and not knowing that they have to give the other person to talk to you just like I
think the focus is what you have to say. You're doing what you're supposed to be doing. I can think, as you were saying that I think we can all think of people that they would consider quote unquote, you know, normal or not. On the autism spectrum, that is everything. When you have these Yeah, interest. Absolutely. We all have those, right? Right. Some of
the challenges that these people have is around social interaction, like I told you, And understanding cues, having a sense of relatedness with other people, understanding You know what the other person being thinking If I say this on also around communication, Like I said, you know, especially communication becomes extremely hard when I'm anxious or nervous. You know what? I'm worried about something. I just feel like I'm at a loss for words like I don't know how to say it. So these challenges are having quite a bit for adults on the autism spectrum. And they also, in addition, that part of the diagnostic criteria is that these people have what is called restricted and repetitively behaviors. I like to think of it as intense interest in a certain topic or a certain object first, some kind of activity that they like to do, like there are people that enjoy cookie shops, for example. Or they're people that enjoy talking about, you know, emotions and maps, and that anything there are people who like talking about algebra or trigonometry or something like that. So we all have these interests, like if you get me started on talking about gardening, I can just go on and on, you know, So it's things like that were very passionate about certain topics, and we can go on the difference between a person on the autism spectrum, and one of us is we think we don't have a diagnosis, right? So one of those so called, is typical people. The difference is we have the ability to regulate our emotions. We have the ability, regulator behavior in our actions, what is called exactly functioning. That is something that comes very easily for us. In most situations he's on. We kind of take it for granted. For the most part, right for people on the autism spectrum and even people with other learning challenges, executive functioning or the ability to regulate and control one's own emotions and activities and behaviors tends to be slightly challenge. So what happens then is if I do not know how to regulate my emotions and behaviors actions. I am running into confusions all the time, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to approach a situation. So there's a lot of anxiety involved in all of these challenges around socialization catch communication. So I like to think of it as a snowballing effect. You know, what if my clients told me once he was a very bright and man, he wasa psychology in each other in Aga, Brad and this was, you know, several several years ago. He could learn he could get good grades. But what happened one day is he asked. I think he wasn't paying attention and glass or something like that. He raised his hand and he asked a question on Everybody laughed on, So he got extremely embarrassed. And he was like, Oh, my gosh, maybe I said some things, really? You know, knots nonsensical or something like that. Yeah, he was really upset about that. So he went to his dorm, started crying the entire evening on the next day, he wanted to write his professor that he feels embarrassed from each class, and he didn't know how to approach a professor, tell them about the situation. And he was just worried what the professor and I think about him. So he didn't write that e mail. So he missed the next class. And so after that, he missed an assignment. And now, because he missed a class in an assignment because he was embarrassed. Now he's all only lost. Some, you know, grade some points of the course. So now he's like, Okay, well, I'm already embarrassed. I have lost on points in the class. So how do we approach my professor now? How is what is he gonna think of me or what? My classes when you think of me. And then it went on from there. You just stop going for classes, quit and then dropped from the course eventually. Oh, yeah. So what happened? Yeah. So this is something that happens for most of our students because you start addressing one problem, and then why don't focus on one problem? There's multiple other things that are going on in your background. And you're like, I have the ability to focus on this one problem, right? And then I leave and then recovering exams very, very, very hard. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Well, let's talk about the strategies that you have formulated to help faculty that have learners with
disabilities. So, you know, I've been digging into literature quite a bit for this purpose, you know, reading a lot about universal design of learning and looking into some of the principles in education for students with disabilities, specifically for students, without some things that stand out from all of this, the more I read about it, and the more I hear why, fancy members say. And the more I hear from students, one peeing that comes out at me is that, Hey, look at these strategies. If I used these strategies in my flash room, not just a student with autism would benefit. But every single person that classroom would benefit from that strategy. So I'm like, you know, why don't we just do it, that
you no way should all be doing should all be doing these. Yes, right.
So some of the things that really are important, I think one is having some kind of predictability in routine and having some kind of structure. One thing we know about you know, about a lot of students with autism that I worked with in the past is if I have a certain structure and a schedule. I let the student know that, Hey, here's what's coming after this event. Say, for example, in the 1st 10 minutes of class, we're gonna talk about assignment requirements. Then we'll talk about you know, the topic for the day, but we'll lecture, and then maybe we'll work on a world of sheet and then we'll have a group activity sometimes outline for that class and this doesn't have to be just structure for a certain class, but just structure for the entire course. You know, structure for Al exams are going to be organized. It's both within the design of the course, and the well, of course, is delivered. So when we start thinking about following a certain set of structure, it just makes things more predictable for the student for the owner, right? And even those students will have anxiety of like, Oh, my gosh, what you're gonna do in class today or what are we gonna have to do is you put me in a group or is she gonna make me answer stand up and talk? So she's gonna make me answer a question that I don't know the answer for. I haven't grabbed it from, you know, the assignment yesterday where I read the book yesterday. What you gonna make me do? So I like to go into class every day, right in agenda on the board. It doesn't have to be any fancy photographs and visual schedules and things like that. I just used like a plane marker and a white board or chopping a blackboard and just right agenda for today. Here's what we're going to do five times. And as I complete each of those items I items I'd like to check them off with a student knows that you know, this is done, and then this is done so you can scratch him off, right? Please check more. This kind of predictability, I think, is very helpful. Both in online classroom as in person classroom. So, in online classrooms having some hash schedule, that warning or the first day of the week or something like that, you let students know. Hello. Welcome, everybody. Week, five weeks aches or yeah, yeah, we're going todo ABC for this week and then make sure that once you're done with a go to be and what you're done, would you go to see I kind of routine? You know, Hell's really all students, because that's and and the instructors Really? Yeah. So you know, it helps get all the anxiety around. You know how what I'm doing or how much time I have for something and all that. So that planning really helps the second thing that I've noticed in classes. You're talking about the application of what we do Why we do it. So starting each class or even each topic talking about Hey, here are some topics that we're gonna talk about. How is this time thing relevant for your job in the future? Or how's this topic relevant for your exam? Or how's this topic relevant for your experience in graduate school? You know, that kind of thing? It just makes even the students were less motivated. Want to learn? You know,
and it's amazing how consistent that is. A lot of what we talked about for meeting the needs of adult learners. You have very busy lives a lot going on in the you know. And if the more you can make those connections, you're going to enhance an increase, their ability to be able to learn. Right? Right. Yeah.
I can give you an example of what happened last week in class I was talking about, you know, especially with Joanie Sciences. We have, of course, where we're analyzing leg. Which samples? And so I was talking to students about how do you separate out the more thieves in? You know, Bob, more views and grew more. D'oh. Spare you from all that But then so it's going to details of that. And then the students, All right, what are we gonna do with this once you've raised his hand And he asked me Like I said, Here's what we're gonna do. It's held you. When you become a clinician, you become speech language pathologist. You'll have language samples of Children that you're gathering collecting, and you're in analyzing it. So you want to know what, Martha Logical part of burgers this child is using. So you know what's normal? What's not normal? So I think you know, simple things. Have you tell students they're like, Oh, that makes sense now I really want to them. And now I'm invested in excess. And this happens a lot with students with autism, where they don't have a motivation for learning unless the topic is something that they are really passionate about, or something that they really want it. Once you did with Officer told me, you know, I want to become an engineer and I want to know how to fix things. Why am I having to take a class in psychology?
Well, yeah, I drawing that connection, I'm sure once they realized the connection between things breaking and yeah, and then you have to understand the psychology behind what happens when even our things break. And then then you connect that, yeah, fixing things and designing things. There's a lot of psychology, so
yeah, I mean, we always have to sit down and Pano figure out why we're doing something on. That's really helpful for all students, I think absolutely
great. Normally at the end of all of the podcast episodes, I love to ask for takeaways that are that can be directly applied, very actionable things that our listeners can use right away. Thio enhance their their teaching and the students learning experience. And so you've just given us one really great one, and that is to be very transparent with the order and have a schedule stick to the schedule. Make sure that people know how they're progressing through the delivery bols and expectations in a given class or given weekly module. If it's an online class, what are a couple of other things that you can think of that are really helpful?
One thing I think might be really helpful would be calming strategies, putting them in place proactively as opposed Thio coming up with, you know, behavior modification or conduct. You know, I had a resolution, whatever. It's just extremely helpful that way when we let students know that, you know, there are some calming strategies to practice, like one thing I do is I let students you have a pretty stability helped with Kami. One thing I let students do is take frequent breaks during class. If it is, a one hour class, have its least fine. But it's break time within one hour class, and that doesn't have to be them checking their cell phones. But, you know, getting up and stretching, going outside, taking a fresh breath of air in all that counts. Even practicing some kind of breathing for some students might be helpful. Some students find it funny and they don't want to do it. That's the video, but for some students, they just want to sit in a corner and just take some deep breaths. It just helps to calm down, and it helps the instructor to Yo. Yeah, these kinds of calming strategies are helpful, and I let students you don't know that feel free to do these things when we have that great time. And don't feel shy or embarrassed that you're doing something like I have a bunch of sensory toys in my classroom, things like, you know, a squeeze ball or Plato or something like that. How, you know, play with studios, break times three. You know, that kind of come to mine down. You're not focusing on my gosh, what all they have to do with my life, you know that you're thinking about you're just focusing on that sensory you that experience and maybe that's helping you calm down like their students in my class is about to do to, you know, tell them just go. You go for it. Just keep doing I don't care as long as you're listening. As long as you're participating and engaging, I think that kind of flexibility and willingness to be okay with all types of learning styles within the classroom, some people can learn only when they have music on or some people can learn only when they're doing on the side. You know, anything that's also very helpful list as instructors for us to practice well. And I think
that articulating these things even if if you say Midway's overthrew the course. We're going to take a break, just tow, have a few deep breaths. Well, maybe somebody will laugh about that. But I think articulating that you're creating a space for that just normalizes for everybody. If there people in the room that need to take a couple of really depressed, you know, in, the more that you can normalize the fact that people might be feeling anxious or they might be feeling overwhelmed, that's gonna take some really great strides to just making it a more comfortable place for
everything. Absolutely, Yeah, I just wanted to have another thing that I think has come up a lot. Anything very helpful strategy, nothing offended by a lot of questions or comments that some students may, you know. One thing that the professor's asked me when they are working with a student on the autism spectrum is the student is really rude or in polite in the classroom to me and to the Pierce. Now, I'm not saying that they are not rude or that they cannot be, but I think it's important to understand that a lot of students with autism are often misunderstood. Yeah, they tend to use blunt sling, which sometimes they can be abrupt, very black and white anything first. And so the way they asked for the tone in which they ask, or even the Michael facial expressions when they ask, these things sometimes get interpreted as older student is really rude to me, or they're just being me directly. But yeah, I think it's helpful to give some benefit of the doubt. You know, Jamie, they are rude. I'm not saying that. Maybe they're not, you know, way. Don't know. So waiting it out not just assume is the student makes the first comments that's rude or blend not just immediately going to go and fix it, but waiting and giving that student a couple more chances. See if this keeps repeating again and again. You know, if this is a pattern that you're seeing like maybe five times throughout in the entire week, you're seeing that the student is being rude or trying to figure out what about that statement was rude, or why was that student saying what they said? You know, sometimes professors get offended when students he passing the same questions over and over and over again, or you might have given instructions very clearly, and the student might be like, I don't understand what you said. Tell me that thing again, you know? And the way they say it, you know, interrupt, saying, Would you please It's all right that very direct, very direct. Is it in those places, I think we can troubleshoot from our sight what things that we can take care off. Say, for example, giving that instruction and official format as opposed Thio. Just an auditory. You're a portable instruction, writing it somewhere or having some kind of flow chart. Like I told you, when you finish this step, go to this step, then this that that kind of thing's some kind of flow chart That's very helpful, just showing that these are the instructions. And here is where you go to access these instructions. That's helps resolve most of those problems. Sure, right, And so those are some things that we can have trouble shoot before we address. White person is rude or not, and so when and if a person is really rude and this becomes a pattern in class and the person's route through the piers and everybody, I think it's also helpful to talk to that student directly the actions of others. You know, one on one. Just let them know that Hey, here are the university rules and policies on behavior within a classroom setting. These are professional expectations within a classroom setting on. I would really appreciate if you follow these rules that way. It's helpful not just for you, but for everybody in the classroom. Because I and I would also like for somebody else in the classroom. Do you have a chance to talk, for example? You know, sometimes we've noticed that students with autism tend to be I'm monopolizing the conversation or something like that. So just letting them know that here's what we're facing, they might not know that this is a problem. Sure, it was important for the professor to just let them know that there's a problem that's happening. And here's how you can fix it on Dhe. For all you know, they actually receive it very well, and they might just topping rude or stop monopolizing or knowing when to take their turn to talk. They might still talk, and I still want to raise their hand or, you know, frequently, but they know that here's my China. This is when I need to talk. Generally, people with autism are excellent with rules again making very generalized comment here, you know. But this is something that we see in a lot of people that when you say something that you say that this is a rule, they like to follow it because that gives us enter predictability, right. Lets them know that this is what we need to do. So going back to kind of summarizing what I was saying, you know, being flexible a little bit and not having our ego, our head When Here, you know, just allow me some time and some explanation of why that student did what they did. Very helpful for us taking a backseat and watching that way. We eventually we support that student and we're also supporting the other students in the class.
Well, yeah, that's what I was just thinking. Is that all of these takeaways truly our best practices for managing students and classrooms and on So I think, really just giving students the benefit of the doubt, especially if you get a bit of communication that comes from them. that is off putting really in anyway. You know, I think that it helps to know this statistics and to know that there are, in fact, a rising numbers of students with disabilities that are entering higher end. And through that lens, we can maybe adjust our gut reaction a little bit. You know, Thio, all students to you know, check ourselves a little bit ast faculty and stop and think. OK, what is the source? What might this student have going on? And I loved your thought about your idea about looking for patterns giving enough time. Just see, Is this a one off interaction or is there a pattern here? And if there's a pattern here than what might be causing this So this has been really informative, super helpful, and I so appreciate your time.
Well, well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to talk about this and because it's very important topic. Yeah, four young adults for parents of young models for universities and professors in the higher education system. Yeah,
well, thank you. Thank you so much. Have a topic you're passionate about as it relates to teaching and learning with an adult population. You can join our conversation by submitting suggestions or interview ideas during a website. University college dot d'you dot e d u Forward slash elevated. I hope you'll subscribe and share this podcast with colleagues and friends who are also passionate about effective teaching and learning strategies. Proposed traditional students Thanks for listening.